Interview with Female Film Club
Today, in the Beyond The Chameleon Podcast, Ella talks to Nicole Lieberman and Liza van der Smissen. They talk about creating community and celebrating differences as females in the film industry.
They are the creators behind the Female Film Club, an online networking platform for female filmmakers from all around the globe. The members come from different backgrounds, and different stages in their careers, but they all have the same goals: connect, support, and share.
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Intro 00:00
We want to reconnect with the industry. We were keen to find a connect within the disconnect.
Ella 00:51
Hi, I'm Ella Jarman-Pinto and you are listening to Beyond the Chameleon - conversations on belonging in the creative media industries. I'm so excited to have lined up a number of forthright and open minded professionals in the film, TV industry as guests to talk about how we all, as individuals, can find our own way of belonging, and how we can use this to create a space for others who follow behind us. This podcast has been on my mind ever since I read Brene Brown's book 'Daring Greatly', and she spoke about belonging versus fitting in. Fitting in involves changing yourself in order to adapt to your environment - chameleon! - and therefore also choosing others who feel similar to you in order to feel safe. Belonging on the other hand is about knowing who you are inside and feeling able to be that person in whatever situation you find yourselves in. And then the Black Lives Matter movement ignited my anger, reflected my distorted self showed me how I have spent my life fitting in, camouflaging myself to feel safe and silencing and softening my opinions in order to be more acceptable. But this isn't me. I was a wildfire child, you just asked my mum, full of passion, rage, emotions bursting at the seams. I was a fiercely independent teenage woman full of feminist ideals ready to fight for what was right. And then I entered a new world excited for my musical future. I was unprepared for the sexism, the racism, the violence and the classism. And I snuffed out my flame because it was the only way I knew to keep safe. The thing is, it not only affects me, I'm a composer. That's my job. That's what I love doing. And it affects the music. It affects all of us and our creative output. Art, music, creativity, everything that we need in order to make our productions work. They all come from within. And they give a brutally honest representation of where we are at this moment in time, even if we don't expect them to. And so I'm creating this podcast to talk to other like minded people in the creative media industries, about how we find ourselves and how we can create space for others. And how we can make the industry more inclusive. It's only when we can truly feel a sense of belonging that we have the capacity and power to welcome others authentically who are different from us and to really listen, see, welcome and empower others. Right I'm recording my voice, recording, recording, I can see that it's recording. All right welcome. I really excited to have Nicole and Liza on from the Female Film Club. And they're going to talk more about what they do but welcome it's so great to have you on my first podcast, well first episode of my podcast
Liza 04:09
Thank you for having us. We're really excited.
Nicole 04:10
It's so great to be here.
Ella 04:13
We were chatting just now I mean, we've been sort of coming into contact through kind of learning about your new venture the Female Film Club, which I have joined and I've loved so far, I've watched one of the films that you've suggested already my husband and I sat down watch through the film and just 'whoa'. I'm so glad that was in my life.
Liza 04:36
The first film huh?
Ella 04:38
It was only the first film so I'm going to look at this. You basically sorted out what we're watching from now on by the way. So if you'd like to just introduce yourselves and and tell us what the Female film Club's about.
Liza 04:50
Alright, well, I'm Liza. I have a background as an artist as an actor and I worked as a producer after. I studied also feminist film theory at Middlesex, where I researched flawed female characters in Western 21st century film. I love everything about female storytelling, love telling the stories, love facilitating them. And with all of this, I came in contact with Nicole.
Ella 05:20
Ah, Hi, Nicole.
Nicole 05:22
Hi. Hi. So I'm Nicole. My background is actually in human rights. So I have a Master's in Human Rights law. I got into film with producing, I a co-produced a British Ugandan feature film called Imperial Blue. I then produced and co-wrote with Liza a short film called Next, which had an 80% female crew. Hstarted our work together. I'm also the VP of acquisitions and business development for an online VOD platform called Her Flix, which also promotes films directed by women or from the female gaze. So this really led on to the whole venture with the female film club and us working together so well, and so organically, and we thought we need to do something more with this collaboration.
Ella 06:19
Wonderful, wonderful. That sounds really exciting. I mean, like, the two of you, and your separate ways into this, you know, like thinking about flawed characters, and, you know, flawed female characters. I mean, you know, all of us when we, when we watch a film, we go, 'Oh, really? Come on. Come on.' I watched something yesterday, and there was this woman and you know, the only sign of her having a difficult motherhood was the fact that she, you know, it was said that she drank a little bit too much, but it's like, she was flawless. I was like, you have you have a baby and a potty training child, you are not going to be flawless. But yeah, and also, you know, the human rights side of things, because I mean, that sounds like you two are absolutely perfect combination. I'd love to, where can we see your film next.
Liza 07:09
So the film first premiered at the London Independent Film Festival, where it also won Best Short Film, and a few other festivals, won a few more different prizes. And it's just coming to an end of the festival circuit.
Nicole 07:24
And it's online, actually. So you can watch it on Her Flix, the platform. So it's www.herflix.com and you can watch it there.
Ella 07:33
Wonderful. That's amazing. Congratulations.
Nicole 07:46
So you want to start
Liza 07:47
Yeah, after our film kind of wrapped up, we were like, We have such a great collaboration going on. We need to be working more together with each other. But we felt like we explored the making a short film. So we kind of want to venture into something else. And then, of course, the pandemic happened. And we felt so disconnected and isolated from the film industry, because we both had projects that were cancelled or postponed. And we couldn't do our day to day job within the film industry. And then, of course, everybody was watching films at home. Because I mean, what's kind of the first thing everybody does? And we were like, how about we turn this gaze a bit more into the fantastic films directed by women with the female gaze? Because we both go to film festivals so often?
Nicole 08:40
Uh, yeah, the reality is that I mean, for us, the way we really get to meet other female filmmakers, or just filmmakers in general, not even just female, is really in film festivals, where you connect with international ones from different countries. And I always call it kind of a film festival family and you create this kind of tribe. I was like, oh, Canada's cancelled, and this is cancelled, and everything's going bad, so I went who I'm gonna meet people, and how do I meet up with them again, and then we sat together and we really decided to we want to do something together. We want to reconnect with the industry, we were keen to find a connect within the disconnect. And we're such a good team, like we said already, where like a yin and a yang we're so different. I mean, don't get me wrong we're so different. It creates such a perfection in a way because we do different things. And we reach out in different ways and that really completes each other. So I remember I was sitting with Liza just before lockdown happened. And we actually we live five minutes away from each other. So we're very close. And we sat and said, What can we do? What can we do? And yeah, we just thought and we thought, we came up with a name, we thought female film club. And we just looked at each other said female film club. Yeah, that's it. And that was it. And since then, we've been developing it for the past four months, on a very regular basis, we've been working with each other remotely to say, because that was the last day, we actually saw each other face to face for three months, three months, even though we live five minutes away from each other. So thank you video calls. Yeah, we did this day and like, night, she wanted to start at 830. And then I had to negotiate because I'm not at such an early start. I was like, Look, 940 doors turn. And then it was like, 945 when I was like, okay, 945 every day. So we had, like, 3 or 4 days a week on a regular working together discipline, having our to do lists. And yeah, just kind of really crafted and step by step. And we're still doing it step by step very baby steps towards what we envision as our lifelong work, really. So this is not a short term, short term. Goal. This is very much long term. It's a movement. Yeah.
Ella 10:56
Oh, it sounds it's. I mean, from experiencing it, myself, just like in those two days having the first kind of like call, meeting the other new members. And which actually was terrifying. It was really terrifying. I just sat there. Yeah, I just sat there and went, Oh, my goodness! And then the imposter syndrome here. I was like, I shouldn't be here. But you know, it was amazing to see people from around the world and people who have experienced lockdown in different ways and experience their work in different ways through lockdown. And before, people are at different stages of their career. And you know, just just that one meeting was so huge for me, and it was amazing. So if anyone here is interested in learning a bit more, where can we find out more about the female film club.
Liza 11:45
Very easy, go to www.femalefilmclub.com, you can have a free trial for two weeks. So just make a profile within five minutes, see if it's for you. But it's so good to hear that this was your experience so far, because that was our aim from the core to have no hierarchy to have no levels, because every piece of a film that's being made by different departments is just as vital. And there's no such thing that a producer is more valuable than a runner or whatever. There's also what we had or our philosophy when we made our film.
Nicole 12:20
100%. I mean, I was the producer Liza was the lead actor, she also was on the production side with me, we had a makeup artist and that was female that was also driving the van you know, and like helping with the location. We had so many strong women, we had a woman and sound recordist that we actually flew all the way from Spain, because it was quite hard to get a woman sound recordist. But I mean, we just created this team. And it just felt like a family. And there was definitely no hierarchy. And I've been on other sites. And I don't want to go too much into detail. But there is a lot of hierarchy in film, unfortunately. And we really decided to step away from that kind of stereotyping. Create something where I think when everyone is happy, A. they do a better job as well. And they feel proud of something and there's no room for ego for hierarchy, just want to get the job done, and you want to do it the best way possible. And I think that's really our ethos.
Liza 13:15
And it's also that women are often raised and also seen and in portrayl that we're in competition or there, there is some kind of, I don't know if I can say it but kind of bitchiness going on. Yeah. And there's no need for that as women. Oh, and I think if we all rewire our brain, I mean, like, how can we help each other in in helping sharing resources, sharing knowledge? How incredible can we lift each other up, if we share, and where the platform is, because there's so many different topics that you can share and create.
Nicole 13:46
And it's about, again, it's about celebrating differences. So even back to me and Liza, we are so different, and we never try to be like each other, because we very much hold on who we are ourselves. But we use these differences in order to to make something and create and we use them in a positive way, not in a negative way.
Ella 14:07
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, what you're saying about, you know, this hierarchy that you can find, you know, and and you know, that competition that can sometimes be there between women. And you know, to be honest between anybody, and but it is that it does stem from that, and this is where we come back to belonging. And I know that you are a Brene Brown fan as well, because you mentioned that yesterday. But you know, this whole thing of that if you feel secure and if you know who you are in yourself, then you don't feel that level of competition between you yourself and somebody else because you know, that you yourself are the person that you need to be and that's all that matters. And if someone there, you know, if you are the person you need to be and then you relate to somebody else in that way from that place of authenticity, like you guys do with each other. Then you know, then then you don't need to be in competition. because there is no competition, there's no one like you.
Liza 15:04
My story, your story, and how can we make it work?
15:07
Exactly, exactly. You know, it's all about finding your people. And I think that's where the hierarchy comes in. You know, I really I really do. You know, I've seen it, you know, like you say, I've seen it myself that level of hierarchy. And I mean, I have it I'm, I get terrible when I like, if there's a teacher, and they may have taught me, I go straight back into my little girl mode. I'm like, Hi, I'm not gonna step out of my shell, you know, like, You're right I wrong, you know? And,
Nicole 15:36
Yeah, but it's about how they make you feel. But it also does take time to find your own inner voice and who you really are. And I think a lot of what we're trying to do with the female film club, is to also help a lot of these women understand like, no, you are great at what you do you have that voice, you can participate. Even if you're an introvert, it doesn't matter, there isn't room for you this place, your voice will be heard. So we don't want to leave anyone behind. It's not just about being the loudest person in the room. It's about wait a minute, what do you have to say? And how is that a value to me, because everybody has an important insight to bring to the conversation, to the mindset, to thoughts, to creativity, and we just want to really embrace it and let them speak.
Liza 16:15
And that's what we found also in like, in testimonials that we've received so far from the female film club members, because we have been trialling this for the past four months, that through these film discussions that we hold every week, that women find their own voice better, and they know better how to articulate themselves and how to take up space. Because there's always people more confident in speaking and more comfortable with being vulnerable, sharing their opinion. But through our conversations, we give everyone the space and the time. And so you develop yourself just by practising speaking and being open and listening. And it's this gift that we're all giving to each other. It's an exchange of energy.
Nicole 16:56
I mean, we found that we really made friends with all the women we've been trialling this with every Thursday and we didn't know most of them. Not that well. And it's almost like, hey, yeah, and it just kind of, you break certain taboos immediately. And you like Liza aside, you kind of let yourself be vulnerable. I just feel very humble that these women are so open with us into sharing and participating.
Ella 17:22
I mean, that is, you know, that's a really special platform to have been able to create that people feel able to do that. Because that's often not the case, isn't it? It's often well, I don't want to put a negative spin on this, because actually, this podcast is a celebration of people finding themselves and finding what works for themselves. But you know that there is that thing of sometimes when you are closed, and you know, as you know, in British society, where we all are based at the moment, you know, it, there's a lot to break through, there's a lot to break through, you know, it's all about being perfect. And if you're not perfect, you're wrong. And if you're wrong, you're never going to work again. And it's terrifying if you've grown up in that, to find yourself and be able to be vulnerable, share your flaws, share what's going wrong, and open up to other people and open yourself up to potential criticism as well. And the fact that you have created this platform, that means that people can do that, yes from other areas of the world as well. But you know, that you've created that platform that people feel they are able to be in.
Nicole 18:23
We wanted to create a safe space. I think that was really our thing. And that's why also we did choose to make it a female club because we felt like we wanted a club for women because we felt we wanted to create a safe space for each other to be able to share these thoughts and in these discussions.
Liza 18:41
Yeah, there's also like it's so clear the first thing that you see when you go to our website is once again femalefilmclub.com You see this is for women who believe that, or female identifying women, we also are of course accepting so welcome just I want to put really much out there, transgender women, non binary filmmakers, everyone is welcome in that regard and we, we're there to have a tribe that believes in the same thing, we don't want women who are the same, we don't want women from the same background, from the same. We want to disagree.
Nicole 19:17
We don't mind if they are!
Liza 19:20
We want to have it as diverse as possible because we watch films that are diverse as possible with so many non English languages because that's the way how we learn how we grow to get different viewpoints. Like for me, one like for me, I had this breakthrough in one of the film discussions that we discussed. It was from the We Are One Film Festival, 'Tremble all you want'. And I really struggled with the lead character to empathise with her personally. And I was like, Why? Because she is flawed. And I love all these flawed female characters but she was flawed in the way that she was maybe a bit more needy or a bit more soft. And for me like I do kickboxing I know haha, I didn't find I found that, I found so much resistance coming up until I realised that's just also being portrayed as a flaw but not a flaw that I find acceptable. And that for me was like, whoa, we talk about flawed female characters all the time, but only if they're flawed in one particular way. And that was for me the switch of like, hold on, check yourself. This is from a Chinese filmmaker. All the resources are also under topics, film recommendations, We Are One film festival, it was week number two, tremble all you want if you want to find out more about the film. But things like this is exactly what we want. Because it's not like, Oh, we're not teaching anyone, we're not teaching anyone.
Nicole 20:50
We're not teaching anyone I mean, all we're doing is just kind of facilitating the space, the discussion where we're demonstrating to get the women there to get everybody together. But when we're in the space with you, and I hope you felt that as well Ella. We just want to be, we are like, we're like all the members. We are our member, if we didn't facilitate this, if we didn't create the female film club, we would join the female film club. Like, for me, it's just like, we are exactly like everybody else on the platform. And we really want to create a space where we are actually friends with all the women. And that's I mean, the idea is to just again, create a safe space for all of us to just have something where, it's nice, it can be an escapism, it can be as a learning, as a teaching, to feel part of something, inspiration to join these discussions. We thought we'd facilitate an environment where again, everybody gets to speak to each other, everybody gets to have a say. And everybody gets to network, even behind the scenes. So we have chat. So if you see someone that seems interesting to you, you can just approach them directly and speak to them. And you don't need to leave your house. No transport, you don't need to take a plane to go somewhere you can just do it from your own house.
Liza 21:17
You don't need to pay for trousers. You don't need to get a drink, you know you. Like just turn on your phone, download the app. I mean, we're having an introduction offer, which is $4.99, 4 pounds a month, and you get the first two weeks for free. That's like two two price.
Ella 22:35
Yeah, yeah, I can see it as a really valuable resource. And you know, somewhere that you can just kind of, you know, you're talking about, you're not trying to teach, but actually, it's all about learning and finding a space to learn and finding a safe space to learn. When you think about the work that you do, what would you say brings you the biggest joy? Like you think about this one particular thing and like you get a smile on your face. I'm going to ask Nicole first.
Nicole 23:02
I think it's when I see, especially in the Thursday sessions and film discussions when I see somebody who maybe wasn't so open in the beginning. And then I see them opening up with every session, and suddenly they're glowing. And they feel so confident when they speak and they have so many amazing opinions. And I'm just rooting that woman. I'm like, Oh, it's so great. It's almost like you see someone come out of their shell. Because, again, like we said before, so many people are introverts and if someone takes over the room, then they will just sit there but they have so many amazing things to say. So it's just about being like okay, stop room, stop person that takes over. And what does this person think? And you speak to them and suddenly their voice comes out and I'm like, man, like that was like. It's nice.
Ella 23:50
Yeah, it's a beautiful moment. Yeah. And how about you Liza?
Liza 23:53
For me, it's about this vision in the future, where women can work together without competition alongside men because I mean, we're both not against men, we love men we work with fantastic men in the film ministry and us both we have so much in our career also to thank to men. So to me doing this work, working towards a future that's so inclusive where everyone can work together where we celebrate the women like today the director got chosen to direct the female, the Marvel number two Captain Marvel, and it's the first black woman and the fourth woman in total doing a Marvel Studio. And it's all these small snippets on Instagram page and at female film club also. All these small steps just give me the massive smile on my face because I'm like, there is change coming. We can do it together. It's initiatives like this, all these little steps and before you know it, this is the industry that we want, and it's in our hands to create it together.
Ella 25:04
Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, I mean, that, for me is the same as this podcast. You know, this podcast came for me from, from I think I read something that was like doing stats on how many female film directors there had been how many female composers there had been, and I just went, are you kidding me? I was like, this is ridiculous. This is utterly ridiculous. And, you know, I want you know, I want to do something similar to you create this podcast that, you know, that helps to kind of give people the feeling that actually they can do it, too. They are absolutely capable. And, you know, create this community in the similar way that you're creating your community. And I think it's great that that there is, you know, there are people just going you know what, sod that I'm not waiting for you to pick me up anymore. I'm going to do it myself.
Liza 25:53
Yeah, exactly. And nobody's taking anyone's space, it can all coexist. That's the beautiful thing, because with so many different organisations, that we're all lifting each other up, nobody's stepping on each other's toes. Once again, we don't believe in competition. The world is big enough for everyone. Nia DaCosta is, by the way, the film director I forgot to mention her name.
Ella 26:13
Oh, brilliant. So I did warn you before we started recording that, we're going to head into a massive taboo subject, which is money, money, money, money, money, money.
Nicole 26:25
Money, money, money. Oh, yeah.
Liza 26:30
Just to quickly dive in, there's an incredible film, it's on Netflix in certain countries, French film, and won loads of prizes. And there's this young girl who at some point, she was she's trying to make money in the world. She's getting into the drug dealer circuit, whatever. And there's this beautiful, beautiful scene with her and her friends in their imaginary car going like, on a farm, money, money money! This is like all like little thing like woo!
Ella 27:06
Love it. Okay, cool. I'm gonna check that out. That sounds great. So I mean, you know, money, massive, taboo, we have so many issues with money, especially as women, we're taught that money is really bad. And wanting money is bad. You know, you see people portrayed in films or on TV, you know, young girls who are spoiled brats, you know, getting everything they want. And that's wrong. Women who are in the top of their top of their work wrong, they're often portrayed as horrible. And, you know, people who've got too much money portrayed as horrible. And it doesn't do us any good, does it really. And so, on the other side of it, you know, in terms of inclusivity, often you get all these schemes that are like, Hey, we're gonna bring women into the scheme, and we're gonna give people the opportunity. Oh, it's unpaid. Yeah, great. That helps me, thank you. That's not inclusive at all. That's just you, that's tokenistic. You know, we're gonna do something that's, you know, for people who identify as black or people who are BAME, oh, it's unpaid. It's like, great. Actually have this experience myself of a concert that I did great concert. Brilliant, like top class ensemble, like, I'm not going to go into too many details. But top class ensemble, only people who are BAME, I hate that term as well. But I'm using it now. And the music itself was incredible. It was like one of the most vibrant concerts I've ever been to. It was incredible. But it was an early evening concert. In London, I don't live in London, I live six hours away from London, unpaid, no travel expenses. So I lost a day's worth of work. Plus, I had to pay the fee, the train fee to get down, find accommodation. It was early enough that I had to leave earlier in the day rather than leaving after my work finished. So I had to cancel all my work to get there. And then after I booked the train tickets, they told me about the rehearsal time, which was the day before. It was wrong. It was so wrong. And you know, at the time you go, well, I can't do anything about, this is an opportunity. I can't not take up this opportunity. I can't not be at the concert. But I lost 400 pounds in lost earnings and train fees to get to this concert, which actually was great. But.
Liza 29:29
It's both because you have such a great experience. But then there's no money and it's like we do like value, it's an exchange of value it's money. And how do you feel valued if there's no money like this?
Nicole 29:42
I can just go back to the work we did together when we did the short film and to be honest, we had quite a low budget. We worked hard with it. We did an Indiegogo campaign. We managed to get some, luckily some exec producers. we also hustled to do parties and raise money. But our motto was the whole time, everybody on set will get paid. It was wonderful. You know, I mean, I just think it's so important that everybody gets paid for the work they do. And it just gives value to you role and to what you have done in your profession. And I think I think there's nothing wrong with that. And that's another issue, as you touched upon within the film industry that there are so many budget-free. And I think it's no one's fault, because budgets are so low. And that is such an issue with, with financing. So obviously, the big budgets have huge budgets, and then the low ones have such a low budget, and everybody finds it very difficult. But everyone should get paid for the work they do.
Liza 30:48
Also, like if you want to make something, make sure you can pay or don't do it, raise the money and then pay the people. Like. And I, there's a middle way because I it's not like I'm against working for free at all. Because sometimes there are opportunities and there are things that are worth it. But that's rare. And you need to make sure that it's really worth it. And then do it for for a charity or for people like in the beginning of my acting career. Like almost any actor I did like, except for expenses only like student films, and things like that, and they helped me get get paid work. Yeah. However, there's a time and a place, and a frame for that exact like, we've also we started to female film club with no income from this at all for the past four or five months working for free. We've been working for free, because you have to start somewhere. And we believe in and as we said that we're in for the long run, this is our life's work. And the same time, we will never be embarrassed to make money. Because money is power, and the more money will go to. There I said, it's proven that when women are more wealthy in a country or the economy thrives because they're spending more on charities, on their children or on education, on things like that more often. Also, that's what the beautiful thing, I just see what the black lives matter. Black lives matter movement, money is being distributed in how can we support black businesses? How can we support voices that haven't been heard? And if the money goes there, they have more power there, they can amplify their voices, the power balance can shift. So there's nothing wrong at all with
Nicole 32:43
And there's so much good you can do with money. Again, I come from a human rights background, and I was thought, oh my god, if I had all this money, there would be so much I could invest in. But also to make a note, there's nothing wrong with investing in yourself as well. I think if you don't take care of yourself, you cannot take care of others. And you do need to prioritise yourself and then you can also change the world. So it does bounce off of each other. And yet so much stigma around money and people say oh, when you make lots of money, you will change and it changes you and you become this horrible person, you suddenly morph into this metamorphosis of like this evil, conniving, greedy.
Liza 33:21
We get you!
Nicole 33:24
I always find this, I'm like, it's not true. If I had lots of money, there would be so much good that would go along with that and investing in projects and creating and I think again, then it just amplifies who you are. And the world is so abundant there is enough out there for everyone and to create with and we just need to break free of these stigmas and stereotypes of how money makes you look or act you know.
Liza 33:52
It's great what you're doing. Yes, like making people talk about it. That's the very first step. So congratulations for that.
Ella 34:00
You know what I can't actually take, I can't take credit for this. This was my friend, lifelong friend who messaged me the other day in the middle of the night. She's got a seven month old in the middle of the night and she was like, Ella, you need to talk about money on your podcast. I was like, oh, no, that's too scary. My friend Emily, she is the one who has to take credit for all of this money side. People think that they're going to change when they make money, but actually, it's the stigmas that make people change when they make money. That's the stigma if you can kind of go no, it's okay. I deserve to make money. I mean, even saying that makes me feel sick but I am working hard on this. You know, I deserve to make money I deserve to make money to you know, to feed my family.
Nicole 34:50
I think if you do something which, me and Liza, we always talk about it, we're doing something that is good. There is no evil in what we do. We do it with integrity. We're good with ethics, we listen to our clients, our members, we listen, we learn, we learn from each other. So I think when your heart is in the right place, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I mean, obviously, there are lots of people that do a lot of evil with money as well. But they might do evil without money. So it doesn't matter. It's just me as a person. So I think it goes back to your core values. And really, again, like who you are as a person, and how you perceive the world and how you perceive society, and just what is your reality?
Liza 35:32
And it's an exchange of value. Yeah, if you add a lot of value to the world, like, and you get a lot of money back for it. Yeah. If you want more money, create more value. Yeah. Do more good in the world. Yes. That's all it is, in my opinion, you can make money in sneaky ways, and whatever. But let's be honest, you don't want to be old, hard and think back to that. So you might as well make a lot of money with creating amazing value, and for other people's lives.
Ella 36:02
Yeah, the guy in Breaking Bad didn't end up well, did he?
Nicole 36:06
Karma comes to get you. Well we've come to, we're gonna come to an end. It's been amazing talking to you both. But I have one final question for the for the two of you. There's this saying of don't judge yourself and your journey by the person who is 10 steps ahead of you. Because you don't know what they've been through. In order to get there. You have all that to come already. So if you were to think about someone who is two, maybe two, three steps behind you, what would you say to them?
Liza 36:37
Find your tribe, find your tribe, and they will lift you up, you don't have to do everything by yourself, you cannot do everything by yourself. It's okay to ask for help. It's okay to give help. And together you can rise so much quicker than if you tried to do everything by ourselves. 100% I agree with that. Yes. Yeah, I think nothing can be done alone. And a film cannot be made on its own. And as people, we need each other and I think even in this period of the pandemic, realise even more how much we need each other. And I think you can do so, I could do only so much if I did it alone. And Liza could only so much if she did it on her own. But the fact that we're doing it together creates it's so much bigger than we could ever have imagined. I mean, it's true. So if we're very lucky, so I wish and I want everyone to really find what we found with each other. But I think if you reach out to people and again, you discount the competition element, the jealousy, all the horrible things, and you're just positive, concentrate on positive and what you can learn from each other and, and exchange, give and take and give and take, then really if everyone thought like that, I think we would have a better world.
Ella 37:49
Absolutely. Well thank you so much. It's been absolutely amazing chatting to you today. And, and you know, everyone needs to check out your female film club. It is incredible. And I'm really excited. I'm gonna see like, can I get my husband to do the bedtime tonight so I can actually come and join in? I'm not sure it would go down well, but we could. You might hear the baby screaming in the background.
Nicole 38:13
We have a mum coffee morning as well, mum friendly so.
Ella 38:19
I'll have to join that one, then I'll definitely put it in the diary be like, sweetheart, this is when you're going to do this. And this is why because I'm going to go off and like chat with the female film club. I'm just gonna book it in, book a month in advance. And that's my that's my time. Thank you for being my first guests. I'm so excited.
Nicole 38:37
Thank you so much for having us.
Liza 38:39
Good luck on your podcast!
Outro 38:42
I want to thank you for listening. Time is precious, and I'm honoured that you've chosen to spend yours with my guests and myself. Episodes are released weekly, so make sure to subscribe and share with your friends and colleagues. If you'd like to know more about the work that I do, check me out on LinkedIn and Facebook at Ella Jarman Pinto. And join my mailing list via the link in the liner notes. And last but not in the least bit least, please consider supporting me in my podcast venture by donating via buy me a coffee. Although I don't like coffee, so buy me a pizza instead. I'll see you next week.
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